Oh I’m so going to argue back on the “cross dressing is less than optimal.” The distress from gender dysphoria - sure. Homosexuality - uhhh, I mean one could argue blah blah blah procreation but at the end of the day, I’m not sure if calling a loving, supportive intimate relationship “not optimal” is accurate. A loving, supportive intimate relationship is the definition of optimal, regardless of gender. Now obviously if we’re talking about intimate partner violence/domestic abuse/assault/rape, possibly??? hookup culture and such, then we’re talking.
Thanks again for this, Hope. I make all the same arguments you are making here. A person with a same-gender sexual orientation is just as capable as a heterosexual person of loving, of giving warm, genuine closeness in a romantic relation. Why should that goodness be penalized because something may not be optimal with their orientation? None of us are perfect in lots of ways and that does not preclude us from having relationships. And certainly obsessive behavior like cross-dressing is, is just one of millions of ways humans obsess. Do we kick people with other obsessions out of our human communities because of their obsessions (apart from those obsessions that cause illegal kinds of harm to others)?
These are issues few people even talk about when bringing up these politicized beachballs. I would personally love to go to a homosexual wedding between two people who are truly bonded as partners. I might even kiss the brides with all the love Jesus Spirit in me has for each of them. I would want and would advocate for them to have the same kind of loving, gracious support every other human in our community needs. Part of that support would look like them being supported in any work Jesus gave them to do among us.
So, could a lesbian woman be my pastor? Yes, very much, and I would give her all of the support Jesus empowers me to give a pastor, with the loving heart of Jesus. The only concern I would have for her would be the very same concern I have for every human; does she value a trusting harmony with God?
These issues need to be talked out, openly, directly, not hiding behind simplistic polemics, like whether something is good or bad.
And I may be wrong about what I am thinking about these matters. I certainly run into things that God changes in my way of thinking from time to time. I hope you and others will love me enough and more importantly, trust God with me enough, to give me the grace I will give you. We need this kind of God-driven unity more than we need to be correct in how we see those matters. Our lack of this kind of unity has spiritually bankrupted our communities of followers of Jesus. And that is the point this post is trying to make.
I'm curious; how do you feel about that point I was trying to make?
I mean I might be wrong too, I’ve changed before. I dunno.
And yeah people are not disposable. I don’t know how to handle people who’ve done serious harm; like if somebody is pastor abusing their congregation (Catholic church sexual abuse crisis for example) but also people like my dad who DO seem to believe some people are disposable…
Love is unconditional. Relationships are wholly conditioned by both people wanting the relationship. If you are intent on harming some one, you don't actually want the relationship and the other person can lovingly face up to the truth of this and refuse to act as though there is a real relationship there. Yet, we can still love those who want to hurt us. And we are called to do just that.
Like. It’s not even about loving LGBT+ people - it’s just not less than optimal behavior - loving respectful relationships regardless of gender and dressing freely without fear of harassment or fear of social ostracization is the definition of optimal.
But the rest is like yeah I mean. Totally.
I’m sick of cancel culture lmao. Idk what being sick of cancel culture and being a leftist looks like but that’s where I’m at rn.
I wonder if accepting how unity occurs in a community can be realized if we don't first experience individual repentance of our pride and fear to really experience harmony with God and the love it generates? I suspect not.
Consistent and somewhat indirectly suggested in this piece from a little while ago. https://open.substack.com/pub/shashue/p/in-celebration-of-pride-month?r=4hlqgy&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Oh I’m so going to argue back on the “cross dressing is less than optimal.” The distress from gender dysphoria - sure. Homosexuality - uhhh, I mean one could argue blah blah blah procreation but at the end of the day, I’m not sure if calling a loving, supportive intimate relationship “not optimal” is accurate. A loving, supportive intimate relationship is the definition of optimal, regardless of gender. Now obviously if we’re talking about intimate partner violence/domestic abuse/assault/rape, possibly??? hookup culture and such, then we’re talking.
A loving supportive relationship? uhhh. Nah.
Thanks again for this, Hope. I make all the same arguments you are making here. A person with a same-gender sexual orientation is just as capable as a heterosexual person of loving, of giving warm, genuine closeness in a romantic relation. Why should that goodness be penalized because something may not be optimal with their orientation? None of us are perfect in lots of ways and that does not preclude us from having relationships. And certainly obsessive behavior like cross-dressing is, is just one of millions of ways humans obsess. Do we kick people with other obsessions out of our human communities because of their obsessions (apart from those obsessions that cause illegal kinds of harm to others)?
These are issues few people even talk about when bringing up these politicized beachballs. I would personally love to go to a homosexual wedding between two people who are truly bonded as partners. I might even kiss the brides with all the love Jesus Spirit in me has for each of them. I would want and would advocate for them to have the same kind of loving, gracious support every other human in our community needs. Part of that support would look like them being supported in any work Jesus gave them to do among us.
So, could a lesbian woman be my pastor? Yes, very much, and I would give her all of the support Jesus empowers me to give a pastor, with the loving heart of Jesus. The only concern I would have for her would be the very same concern I have for every human; does she value a trusting harmony with God?
These issues need to be talked out, openly, directly, not hiding behind simplistic polemics, like whether something is good or bad.
And I may be wrong about what I am thinking about these matters. I certainly run into things that God changes in my way of thinking from time to time. I hope you and others will love me enough and more importantly, trust God with me enough, to give me the grace I will give you. We need this kind of God-driven unity more than we need to be correct in how we see those matters. Our lack of this kind of unity has spiritually bankrupted our communities of followers of Jesus. And that is the point this post is trying to make.
I'm curious; how do you feel about that point I was trying to make?
Gotcha lol I got a lil reactive.
I mean I might be wrong too, I’ve changed before. I dunno.
And yeah people are not disposable. I don’t know how to handle people who’ve done serious harm; like if somebody is pastor abusing their congregation (Catholic church sexual abuse crisis for example) but also people like my dad who DO seem to believe some people are disposable…
Love is unconditional. Relationships are wholly conditioned by both people wanting the relationship. If you are intent on harming some one, you don't actually want the relationship and the other person can lovingly face up to the truth of this and refuse to act as though there is a real relationship there. Yet, we can still love those who want to hurt us. And we are called to do just that.
Like. It’s not even about loving LGBT+ people - it’s just not less than optimal behavior - loving respectful relationships regardless of gender and dressing freely without fear of harassment or fear of social ostracization is the definition of optimal.
But the rest is like yeah I mean. Totally.
I’m sick of cancel culture lmao. Idk what being sick of cancel culture and being a leftist looks like but that’s where I’m at rn.
I like your point that regardless of whether the other things are optimal behavior or not, love is ALWAYS optimal behavior.
I wonder if accepting how unity occurs in a community can be realized if we don't first experience individual repentance of our pride and fear to really experience harmony with God and the love it generates? I suspect not.
Your thought here holds more importance that may at first be obvious.